5 x Radeon HD 6850. ASUS, HIS, MSI, PowerColor and Sapphire

Written by Christiane Ostermann. Posted in Graphics cards. 58 views

Introduction

The GeForce GTX 460 was born with a bang: these are the at the time best GeForce GTX 400 card and a price performance King, who was quickly many customers with a high speed for very little money and numerous variants of the manufacturer. It was no wonder that AMD wanted to find a counterpart as soon as possible.

This has now happened to the Radeon HD 6850 (computer base test). Similar to such as NVIDIA, AMD drives a tactic on the diversity, the product because no single manufacturer offers reference design – instead each with an own product is waiting on.

For this test we have chosen us five different manufacturers, which are all therefore come other cooler and some with slightly higher frequencies with a. Cards from ASUS, HIS, MSI, PowerColor and Sapphire have found their way in our test lab, and we will find out who has developed the best model them.

The candidates

Overview

Our today’s article the five test candidates differ not only in the cooling system used, a producer has increased the clock rates.

< div >

The clock speed of the test candidates compared [MHz]
Map GPU clock Memory clock
ASUS Radeon HD 6850 DirectCU 790 2,000
HIS Radeon HD 6850 775 2,000
MSI Radeon HD 6850 775 2,000
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850 775 2,000
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 775 2,000

Asus has shot at the clock screw of the Radeon HD 6850, where the differences from the reference design to be quite low.

ASUS Radeon HD 6850 DirectCU

The ASUS Radeon HD is listed for about 152 euro, but only available in 170 euro 6850 DirectCU. The availability is currently bad. Currently, ASUS not offers more variations.

&Lt; div > Photo Gallery “ASUS Radeon HD 6850 DirectCU” (13 images)

Asus has slightly increased the clock rate is the only manufacturer in the current test compared to the reference specifications.

< div >

ASUS Radeon HD 6850 DirectCU
Feature Expression
PCB Design Own design
Similar to the PCB of the HD 6870
Length 24.5 cm
Power supply 1 x 6-pin
Cooler Design Own design, 2 slot
Heat sink Alu core, aluminum radiator, 2 heat pipes
Fan 1 x 75 mm (axial)
Fan control Yes
ClockPower (standby) GPU 790 MHz (100 MHz)
Memory 2,000 MHz (600 MHz)
Memory size 1024 MB GDDR5, Hynix
Connections 2 x dual-link DVI
1 x HDMI
1 x DisplayPort
Scope of delivery Hardware 1 x DVI to D-SUB
1 x CrossFire bridge
1 x power cable
Software Driver CD-ROM including proprietary tools

HIS Radeon HD 6850

The HIS Radeon HD 6850 is listed for about 150 euro, but available in any shop. Also HIS has currently no other variant of the Radeon HD 6850 in the program.

&Lt; div > “HIS Radeon HD 6850″ Photo Gallery (12 images)

HIS Radeon HD 6850 OC
Feature Expression
PCB Design Own design
Similar to the PCB of the HD 6870
Length 21.5 cm
Power supply 1 x 6-pin
Cooler Design Own design, 2 slot
Heat sink Copper core, aluminum radiator, 2 heat pipes
Fan 1 x 65 mm (axial)
Fan control Yes
ClockPower (standby) GPU 775 MHz (100 MHz)
Memory 2,000 MHz (600 MHz)
Memory size 1024 MB GDDR5, Hynix
Connections 2 x dual-link DVI
1 x HDMI
1 x DisplayPort
Scope of delivery Hardware 1 x DVI to D-SUB
1 x CrossFire bridge
1 x power cable
Software Driver CD

MSI Radeon HD 6850

MSI holds a total of two variants of Radeon HD 6850 in the own portfolio:

  • MSI Radeon HD 6850: Own design, standard clock rates, 1,024 MB (in test)
  • MSI Radeon HD 6850 OC: own design, higher clock rates, 1,024 MB

The MSI Radeon HD 6850 is listed for approximately 154 EUR, and available from 162 euros. The availability is currently room for improvement.

&Lt; div > “MSI Radeon HD 6850″ Photo Gallery (13 pictures)

MSI Radeon HD 6850
Feature Expression
PCB Design Own design
Similar to the PCB of the HD 6870
Length 21.5 cm
Power supply 1 x 6-pin
Cooler Design Own design, 2 slot
Heat sink Alu core, aluminum radiator, 2 heat pipes
Fan 1 x 85 mm (axial)
Fan control Yes
ClockPower (standby) GPU 775 MHz (100 MHz)
Memory 2,000 MHz (600 MHz)
Memory size 1024 MB GDDR5, Hynix
Connections 2 x dual-link DVI
1 x HDMI
1 x DisplayPort
Scope of delivery Hardware 1 x DVI to D-SUB
1 x power cable
Software Driver CD-ROM including proprietary tools

PowerColor Radeon HD 6850

PowerColor 6850 in the own portfolio holds a total of three versions of the Radeon HD:

  • PowerColor Radeon HD 6850: own design, standard clock rates, 1,024 MB (in test)
  • PowerColor Radeon HD 6850 PCS +: custom design, higher clock rates, 1,024 MB
  • PowerColor Radeon HD 6850 Premium Edition: own design, slightly higher clock rates, 1,024 MB

The PowerColor Radeon HD 6850 is listed for about 150 euros and available from 154 euros. The availability is currently room for improvement.

&Lt; div > Photo Gallery “PowerColor Radeon HD 6850″ (10 images)

PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
Feature Expression
PCB Design Own design
Similar to the PCB of the HD 6870
Length 21.5 cm
Power supply 1 x 6-pin
Cooler Design Own design, 2 slot
Heat sink Alu core, aluminum radiator, 2 heat pipes
Fan 1 x 85 mm (axial)
Fan control Yes
ClockPower (standby) GPU 775 MHz (100 MHz)
Memory 2,000 MHz (600 MHz)
Memory size 1024 MB GDDR5, Hynix
Connections 2 x dual-link DVI
1 x HDMI
1 x DisplayPort
Scope of delivery Hardware 1 x DVI to D-SUB
Software Driver CD

Sapphire Radeon HD 6850

The Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 is listed for about 159 euros and available from 167 euros. The availability is currently room for improvement. There is no other variants currently.

&Lt; div > “Sapphire Radeon HD 6850″ Photo Gallery (11 pictures)

Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
Feature Expression
PCB Design Own design
Similar to the PCB of the HD 6870
Length 21.5 cm
Power supply 1 x 6-pin
Cooler Design Own design, 2 slot
Heat sink Copper core, aluminum radiator, 2 heat pipes
Fan 1 x 75 mm (axial)
Fan control Yes
ClockPower (standby) GPU 775 MHz (100 MHz)
Memory 2,000 MHz (600 MHz)
Memory size 1024 MB GDDR5, Hynix
Connections 2 x dual-link DVI
1 x HDMI
1 x DisplayPort
Scope of delivery Hardware 1 x DVI to D-SUB
1 x HDMI cable (2 meters)
1 x CrossFire bridge
1 x power cable
Software Driver CD with own tools

Benchmarks

The following benchmarks were identified with the current graphics cards-test system based on an Intel Core i7 965. It is operated with a frequency of 3.87 GHz unnecessarily slow the cards. As a driver came for all measurements (including power and volume) of catalyst 10.6 (HD 6800: 10.10) and the GeForce 257.21 (GTX 460: 258.80) used.

Order to preserve the clarity of the charts, we have listed only the easily overclocked Radeon HD 6850 ASUS separately. Because all the other tested cards that match the reference guide of the chip manufacturer, we have a separate designation of these variants foregone.

1920 x 1200

Anno 1404 – 1xAA/1xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
72,2
AMD Radeon HD 6870
71.9
ATi Radeon HD 5850
69.4
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
63,0
AMD Radeon HD 6850
60,8
ATi Radeon HD 5830
60,4
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
53,8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
52.4
Anno 1404 – 4xAA/16xAF:
AMD Radeon HD 6870
50.2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
48.6
ATi Radeon HD 5850
47,2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
42,1
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
41.5
AMD Radeon HD 6850
40.8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
38.9
ATi Radeon HD 5830
35.1
Battlefield: BC2 – 1xAA/1xAF:
AMD Radeon HD 6870
64,2
ATi Radeon HD 5850
60,9
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
59,0
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
53.7
AMD Radeon HD 6850
52.6 %
ATi Radeon HD 5830
49,8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
46.4
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
45.0
Battlefield: BC2 – 4xAA/16xAF:
AMD Radeon HD 6870
46.5
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
45.4
ATi Radeon HD 5850
45.2
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
38.8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
38.7
AMD Radeon HD 6850
38.6
ATi Radeon HD 5830
36.6
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
36.3
Call of duty 6 – 1xAA/1xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
78,3
AMD Radeon HD 6870
77.6
ATi Radeon HD 5850
74.5
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
71,2
AMD Radeon HD 6850
68,7
ATi Radeon HD 5830
66,2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
62,6
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
60,7
Call of duty 6 – 4xAA/16xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
64,2
AMD Radeon HD 6870
62,3
ATi Radeon HD 5850
59.2
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
56,5
AMD Radeon HD 6850
56.4
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
54,9
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
52.7
ATi Radeon HD 5830
48.2
Crysis warhead – 1xAA/1xAF:
AMD Radeon HD 6870
30.8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
29.8
ATi Radeon HD 5850
28.4
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
26.2
AMD Radeon HD 6850
25.6
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
24.1
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
23.3
ATi Radeon HD 5830
22.8
Crysis warhead – 4xAA/16xAF:
AMD Radeon HD 6870
23.9
ATi Radeon HD 5850
22.1
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
21.6
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
20.2
AMD Radeon HD 6850
20.0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
18.4
ATi Radeon HD 5830

17.4

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460

17.0

Colin McRae dirt 2 – 1xAA/1xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
75,5
AMD Radeon HD 6870
68,4
ATi Radeon HD 5850
66,1
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
62.8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
59,6
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
59,6
AMD Radeon HD 6850
59.3
ATi Radeon HD 5830
53,3
Colin McRae dirt 2 – 4xAA/16xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
58.8
AMD Radeon HD 6870
53,5
ATi Radeon HD 5850
52,0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
51,7
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
46.6
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
46.4
AMD Radeon HD 6850
45.4
ATi Radeon HD 5830
41.3
Metro 2033 – 1xAA/1xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
41.6
AMD Radeon HD 6870
40.9
ATi Radeon HD 5850
36,7
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
34.5
AMD Radeon HD 6850
34.1
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
31.8
ATi Radeon HD 5830
30.2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
29.9
Metro 2033 – 4xAA/16xAF:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
29.6
AMD Radeon HD 6870
26.1
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
24.4
ATi Radeon HD 5850
23.1
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
22.5
AMD Radeon HD 6850
22.1
ATi Radeon HD 5830
18.0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460

17.6

Information in frames per second (FPS)

Performance rating

Because only the Radeon HD comes 6850 DirectCU with higher clock speeds, we cover separately only the ASUS card also in the performance charts. All other candidates apply to the values of a normal AMD Radeon HD 6850.

Performance rating

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
119.1
AMD Radeon HD 6870
118,1
ATi Radeon HD 5850
111,3
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
101,7
AMD Radeon HD 6850
100.0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
97.9
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
90,8
ATi Radeon HD 5830
90,4
Data in %

Since ASUS only the frequency of the Barts GPU (and the also minimal) has increased, is the advantage to the reference design is almost negligible. Under 1920 x 1200, on average, we measure just increased speed by two percent. In anno 1404 without anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, as well as in call of duty: modern warfare 2 we find here the biggest advantage with four percent. Also the slightest difference in call of duty – but when anti-aliasing enabled. In the scenario to the ASUS card not at all of the standard model can get away.

Other measurements

Volume

Idle:
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850

40,0

AMD Radeon HD 6850

41.0

AMD Radeon HD 6870

41.0

ATi Radeon HD 5850

41.5

ASUS Radeon HD 6850

41.5

MSI Radeon HD 6850

41.5

PowerColor Radeon HD 6850

41.5

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460

42.0

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB

42.0

ATi Radeon HD 5830
43.5
HIS Radeon HD 6850
43.5
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
44.5
Last:
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
47,0
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
47,0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
48,5
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
48,5
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
49,5
HIS Radeon HD 6850
50.0
AMD Radeon HD 6850
52,0
ATi Radeon HD 5830
52.5
MSI Radeon HD 6850
53,5
AMD Radeon HD 6870
55,5
ATi Radeon HD 5850
56,0
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
64.0
Information in decibels

On Windows, give no nakedness all five test candidates and achieve good results by the Bank. The HIS Radeon HD 6850 is the loudest, but always still pleasantly calm here with 43.5 decibels. All other Radeon-HD-6850-models are however inaudible.

Under load, the chaff separates from the wheat. The Radeon HD 6850 by Asus and Sapphire take the top easily and reach a very good result with 47 decibels. Both run can be distinguished from the remaining components, disturb but not at any time. The PowerColor as well as HIS model follow then with just under 50 decibels, which is still in order, but quite audible. The reference design is louder.

The MSI development disappointed, however, because with 53.5 DB, the accelerator not only ensures an unnecessarily high attention, even the standard model is also quieter. Absolutely incomprehensible, because with the supplied tool Afterburner can switch quickly and simply whisper-quiet video card itself, without having the temperatures in the fast.

Temperature

Idle:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
34
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
36
ATi Radeon HD 5830
37
HIS Radeon HD 6850
37
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
39
AMD Radeon HD 6870
40
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
40
MSI Radeon HD 6850
40
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
43
ATi Radeon HD 5850
47
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
48
AMD Radeon HD 6850
52
Last – GPU:
MSI Radeon HD 6850
67
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
68
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
71
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
71
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
71
HIS Radeon HD 6850
72
ATi Radeon HD 5830
76
AMD Radeon HD 6870
76
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
79
AMD Radeon HD 6850
83
ATi Radeon HD 5850
88
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
92
Last – chip back:
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
55
MSI Radeon HD 6850
55
ATi Radeon HD 5830
56
AMD Radeon HD 6870
56
HIS Radeon HD 6850
56
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
56
ATi Radeon HD 5850
57
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
57
AMD Radeon HD 6850
64
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
65
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
69
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
69
Information given in ° C

The “worst” result under load provides that the PowerColor card is located 79 degrees Celsius but still in the green area. The MSI Radeon HD 6850 with 67 degrees, what but it is hardly surprising due to the high fan speeds achieved the best value. The development of the Sapphire is barely warmer with 68 degrees Celsius, remains, however, but significantly quieter.

Power consumption

Idle:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
164
ATi Radeon HD 5850
165
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
165
AMD Radeon HD 6870
165
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
165
HIS Radeon HD 6850
165
MSI Radeon HD 6850
165
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
165
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
165
ATi Radeon HD 5830
168
AMD Radeon HD 6850
169
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
182
Last:
HIS Radeon HD 6850
279
ASUS Radeon HD 6850
284
MSI Radeon HD 6850
284
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
286
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
287
AMD Radeon HD 6850
288
ATi Radeon HD 5850
299
AMD Radeon HD 6870
300
ATi Radeon HD 5830
307
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
310
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1 GB
310
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470
383
Information in Watts (W)

In the power consumption all five test candidates create the trick exactly under Windows 165 Watts (the entire PC is meant) and four Watt less than the reference design from the outlet to draw. The latter on shows unusually high consumption but have always with us.

Under load, there are larger differences. So the PowerColor adaptation with 287 Watts a Watt is, the Sapphire card two Watts and the Asus and the MSI card at all four Watt under the standard model. The ASUS Radeon HD 6850 “suffers” so not the higher clock rates. It creates the HIS Radeon HD 6850 with 279 Watts to conquer is the place in the Sun. Nine Watts are still less than the reference design.

Overclocking

Battlefield: BC2:
PowerColor HD 6850 – overclocks (950 / 2.404)
45,5
ASUS HD 6850 – overclocks (924 / 2,400)
44.3
Sapphire HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
42.0
HIS HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
41.9
MSI HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
41.9
ASUS HD 6850 – standard (790 / 2000)
38.8
AMD HD 6850 – standard (775 / 2000)
38.6
Crysis warhead:
PowerColor HD 6850 – overclocks (950 / 2.404)
23.8
ASUS HD 6850 – overclocks (924 / 2,400)
23.5
HIS HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
22.0
Sapphire HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
22.0
MSI HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
21.9
ASUS HD 6850 – standard (790 / 2000)
20.2
AMD HD 6850 – standard (775 / 2000)
20.0
Metro 2033:
PowerColor HD 6850 – overclocks (950 / 2.404)
25.8
ASUS HD 6850 – overclocks (924 / 2,400)
25.3
HIS HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
24.5
MSI HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
24.5
Sapphire HD 6850 – overclocks (850 / 2,350)
24.4
ASUS HD 6850 – standard (790 / 2000)
22.5
AMD HD 6850 – standard (775 / 2000)
22.1
Information in frames per second (FPS)

Currently most Radeon HD-6850-cards have integrated a lock in the BIOS, that allows the overclocking only up to 850 MHz for the GPU and up to 2,400 MHz for the memory. This is the case in our review of HIS-, MSI and the Sapphire card. The store, the lock is not so tragic, because more than usually eh 2.350 MHz are unstable, but when the GPU we can not develop the full potential. So the nine to eleven percent performance increases. The cards increases the power consumption by five to ten watts and the volume to one or two decibels.

The Asus and the PowerColor participants there is no lock. The ASUS Radeon HD allows for an increase in clock to 134 MHz 6850 DirectCU, resulting in 924 MHz. The memory is working properly with up to 2400 MHz. The performance increases around 12 to 16 percent and power consumption to 16 watts. The volume increased by a decibel.

We achieve the best result on the PowerColor adaptation with 950 MHz, an increase of 175 MHz compared to the default clock. The store runs up to 2.404 MHz correctly, what the performance increase to 17 to 19 percent. The power turns out to be 19 Watts higher volume equal to 5.5 decibels. All test candidates have concerns a GPU voltage of 1,149 volts.

Conclusion

In contrast to the GeForce GTX 460 competition 6850 currently higher clocked variants – the Radeon HD missing at least the ones that are noticeably faster. In our testing field, the ASUS Radeon HD is only because 6850 DirectCU with higher frequencies, the two per cent increased output are noticeable but not at any time.

In the cooling system, there are, however, numerous specimens that deliver very different results. Most convinced the Sapphire Radeon HD 6850, which remains show with this not only us most kühlsten but also very quiet. On Windows, the show is inaudible and comfortable under load. The ASUS card works on the same level. The GPU is minimal getting warmer, but what does not matter. The places three and four will go to the PowerColor or the HIS product. The MSI Radeon HD 6850 occupies large behind the last place, that on Windows of the competition in nothing inferior, is under load then but unintelligible loud – louder than the reference design. Since then also no longer help the (logically) lowest temperature values.

With regard to power consumption the test candidates differ only under load and there lies the biggest difference with eight Watts, making the performance hunger should affect any decision to buy.

Summary: The ASUS Radeon HD 6850 DirectCu and the Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 have us by the five variants liked most. From the Radeon HD-6850-series include the two undoubtedly among the best of its kind. But both have a catch: the ASUS card is available only starting from 170 euro, the Sapphire derivative from 167 euros. When you consider that a Radeon HD was to have 6850 for the launch for 150 euro, this is no development in the customer.

PowerColor developing got third place itself, directly followed by the HIS card. Both run have their raison d ‘ être, come, but nunmal not on the results of ASUS and the Sapphire model approached. This is the PowerColor Radeon HD 6850 154 euros the best, currently available ATI Radeon HD 6850 and overclock; can be very well the adaptation of HIS is, however, not available.

Advise against only we must 6850, which is quite simply too loud under load from the MSI Radeon HD. With the MSI Afterburner tool can be remedied quickly, without manual intervention the customer not comes out.

&Lt; div > Asus Radeon HD 6850 < div > positive properties

  • Fast enough for 1920 x 1200
  • Often AA/AF possible
  • Good power consumption on Windows
  • Eyefinity
  • Consistently very quiet
Negative properties
  • Bad availability and too expensive when compared to the launch
HIS Radeon HD 6850
positive properties
  • Fast enough for 1920 x 1200
  • Often AA/AF possible
  • Good power consumption on Windows
  • Eyefinity
  • Silent on Windows
  • Acceptable volume under load
Negative properties
  • Currently at all not available
MSI Radeon HD 6850
positive properties
  • Fast enough for 1920 x 1200
  • Often AA/AF possible
  • Good power consumption on Windows
  • Eyefinity
  • Very quietly under Windows
Negative properties
  • Unintelligible loudly under load
  • Bad availability and too expensive when compared to the launch
PowerColor Radeon HD 6850
positive properties
  • Fast enough for 1920 x 1200
  • Often AA/AF possible
  • Good power consumption on Windows
  • Eyefinity
  • Very quietly under Windows
  • Acceptable volume under load
Negative properties
  • Bad availability
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850
positive properties
  • Fast enough for 1920 x 1200
  • Often AA/AF possible
  • Good power consumption on Windows
  • Eyefinity
  • Consistently very quiet
Negative properties
  • Bad availability and too expensive when compared to the launch

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