Six DDR400 modules in dual channel comparison. Part 1: nForce 2

Written by Trudi Daecher. Posted in Ram. 6 views

Foreword

Since our first Intel i875P motherboard comparison a lot DDR400 memory modules met with us, which already were used boards in the comparison of various i865PE/G as compatibility test, and now in turn mode at 200 MHz and also through its paces are checked in the dual-channel. Since is already at the beginning of the test problems with available to us i875P and i876PE apparent boards due to a relatively unripe BIOS, we want to publish our first test results from six of a total of thirteen spoke bar at this point gained on an Athlon XP 3200 + platform with nForce 2 400 ultra motherboard from ASUS.

Had to drive these six pairs of module to its limits, two of our A7N8X Deluxe Rev to by the way. their lives can be 2.0. It seems as if would be motherboard with overclocking by frontside bus increasing unpredictably “swallow”, then to refuse a new connection. We had to fight to complete even the test of these six modules so problems on all along the line.

As soon possible we are new you our test results of all DDR400 modules made available on Intel’s dual-channel DDR400 platform present.

Basics

Since our first store comparison in August last year, where we primarily have dealt ties with DDR333, which has done a lot in the storage market. Meanwhile has succeeded even DDR400, Intel’s commitment was thanks to be recognized as an official standard of storage of the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council). Although the JEDEC are extensible, so also memory manufacturer that mainly by their overclocking modules are known, as for example, Corsair or OCZ, before committing the DDR400 DDR400 standards held modules, the industry giants such as Samsung and Infineon are however until the passage of DDR400 standard by the JEDEC with corresponding modules offered back.

But now there are three official standards of the JEDEC, the storage vendor can set on their modules with DDR400A, DDR400B and DDR400C. To stable operation on a 200 MHz very high real memory clock to be able to ensure the DDR400 standard sees an increase in the DIMM voltage (VDD) of 2.5 volts at DDR200, 266 and 333 on 2.6 Volt to the memory modules must withstand however unquestionably 2.7 Volt in exceptional cases.

When the memory timings, the JEDEC distinguishes three standards:

  • DDR400A: 2.5-3-3-8
  • DDR400B: 3.0-3-3-8
  • DDR400C: 3.0-4-4-8

Thus memory modules represent the fastest modules specification after the DDR400A with their CAS latency (CL) of 2.5 bars, their RAS to CAS delay (tRCD) and RAS Precharge (tRP) of 3 bars and an active to Precharge delay (tRAS) of 8 bars.

Test-bed

In the first part of our DDR400 memory comparison, six different modules have met as a whole. As reference module, two bars of Corsair were here used, the Twinx512 3200LL, which have been specifically validated for a dual-channel operation at 200 MHz and which already accompany us on our route and processor tests. Of course, this is pure-bred overclocking bars, which are expected to compete against a test-bed, which consisted of “standard brand store”:

  • Corsair TWINX512-3200LL
  • Infineon DDR400
  • Kingmax DDR400
  • Kingston ValueRAM DDR400
  • takeMS DDR400
  • Twinmos DDR400

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In the light of the test box was us primarily, that as soon as possible timings for DDR400 (200 MHz) explore, yet we have let take it not, to operate also the cheaper brand store outside the own specifications.

Test system

As already input mentioned, we decided 4 i875P Canterwood platforms due to some problems with our Pentium for the time being, to examine a part of the space bar on an Athlon XP system through its paces.

To prevent any questions, here is a complete listing of our test system:

  • Processor
    • AMD Athlon XP 3200 + Barton FSB400
  • Motherboard
    • Asus A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0 (nForce 2 400 ultra) – BIOS 1004
  • Graphics card
    • ASUS V8460 ultra (GeForce4 Ti4600)
  • Peripherals
    • ASUS CRW4012A
    • IBM IC35LC040
  • Driver versions
    • nVidia detonator 41.09
    • nVidia nForce driver package 2.03
  • Software
    • Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP1
    • Microsoft DirectX 9.0

For our test we chose a memory voltage of 2.6 Volt, we have lowered the multiplier 5 x 9, to achieve a sufficiently high synchronously driven memory clock based on 200 MHz FSB. A stability test, we chose the processor stability test (CPU) of new 3DMark03, which has proved extremely memory intensive and-kritisch. Was the 3DMark03 run successfully completed, we have implies a stable operation in common applications.

Corsair Twinx512-3200LL

A pair of two co-ordinated DDR400 modules that are suitable according to Corsair for a dual channel operation hidden actually behind the name Corsair TWINX512 3200LL. This qualitätiv high-quality single sided reached us modules with aluminum Heatspreader protected in a plastic sleeve, which is found in a cardboard shelter.

The SPD certifies the modules here even at 200 MHz operation with fastest timings of 2.0-2-2-6. Thus dares to get far more the modules required than even the fastest JEDEC standard DDR400A. The SPD can be up to a missing value for the serial no target for criticism. Corsair provides a life-time warranty on the modules.

How it looks with the performance of this high-end modules?

Corsair Twinx3200LL – throughput

Corsair Twinx3200LL – 440-2.0-3-3-7
3,188
Corsair Twinx3200LL – 430-2.0-3-3-7
3.115
Corsair Twinx3200LL – 420-2.0-2-2-6
3.067
Corsair Twinx3200LL – SPD
2.898
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Corsair Twinx3200LL – 3DMark

Corsair Twinx3200LL – 440-2.0-3-3-7
649
Corsair Twinx3200LL – 430-2.0-3-3-7
632
Corsair Twinx3200LL – 420-2.0-2-2-6
623
Corsair Twinx3200LL – SPD
593
Information on points

Up to a real 210 MHz, effectively 420 MHz, memory clock, we could run the modules with very fast timings that go far beyond the timing required by the JEDEC. Light reducing of the memory timings enabled stable operation up to 220 MHz. In addition, we have achieved unfortunately no higher clock rates at any timings.

Infineon DDR400

Infineon’s DDR400 reached modules us very generously dimensioned packaging as they otherwise only get wholesalers. It is single sided modules, which found eight Infineon chips on a circuit board space even developed by Infineon 256 MB of 5ns.

The SPD of the Infineon bar is correctly programmed, has even a serial number, and classified the modules as a DDR400B bar. With the timings of 3.0-3-3-8 keeping himself so fully to the requirements of JEDEC.

Infineon – throughput

Infineon – 460-3.0-3-3-8
3.305
Infineon – 450-3.0-3-3-8
3.220
Infineon – 444-2.5-3-3-7
3,188
Infineon – 440-2.5-3-3-7
3,150
Infineon – 430-2.5-3-3-7
3.078
Infineon – 420-2.5-3-3-7
3.006
Infineon – 410-2.5-3-3-7
2.933
Infineon – SPD
2.873
Infineon – 400-2.5-3-3-7
2,860
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Infeon – 3DMark03

Infineon – 460-3.0-3-3-8
674
Infineon – 450-3.0-3-3-8
662
Infineon – 444-2.5-3-3-7
650
Infineon – 440-2.5-3-3-7
646
Infineon – 430-2.5-3-3-7
628
Infineon – 420-2.5-3-3-7
609
Infineon – 410-2.5-3-3-7
600
Infineon – 400-2.5-3-3-7
586
Infineon – SPD
584
Information on points

During our test, provided no failures in the dual-channel operation to the modules and could operate even to 222 MHz with timings slightly below the DDR400A standard. With the Infineon in the SPD DDR400B set, we reached “stable” timings even 230 MHz in our test criteria. Thus are the modules of Infineon in able to outdo the overclocking modules from Corsair in time to 10 MHz.

Kingmax DDR400

As the first manufacturer ever, Kingmax manufactures modules with BGA memory chips, which allow high clock rates due to their nature in particular the patching and only laid with modules DDR2 standard for a very long time. Kingmax here but the way saw to Excel this before other storage vendors and already before the start of production of DDR2 modules, which will only run in 2004 by the band, to gain enough experience.

The Kingmax DDR400 modules, consisting of Kingmax 5ns chips and Kingmax Board, are double sided and provide a total capacity of 256 MB with a total of 16 chips to each 128 Mbps.

The SPD correctly programmed up to a missing serial number is from DDR400A the bar modules with the correct timings of 2.5-3-3-8. Kingmax has kept so fully to the requirements of JEDEC.

Kingmax – throughput

Kingmax – 460-3.0-4-4-8
3.246
Kingmax – 450-3.0-4-4-8
3.184
Kingmax – 440-3.0-4-4-8
3,112
Kingmax – 432-3.0-3-3-8
3.111
Kingmax – 430-3.0-3-3-8
3.102
Kingmax – 420-3.0-3-3-8
3.013
Kingmax – SPD
2.884
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Kingmax – 3DMark

Kingmax – 460-3.0-4-4-8
669
Kingmax – 450-3.0-4-4-8
644
Kingmax – 440-3.0-4-4-8
641
Kingmax – 432-3.0-3-3-8
635
Kingmax – 430-3.0-3-3-8
630
Kingmax – 420-3.0-3-3-8
617
Kingmax – SPD
587
Information on points

When the timing of the DDR400A standard, Kingmax fully seems to be gone at the borders of the modules. In any case it was not granted to achieve faster timings as 2.5-3-3-8 MHz memory frequency stable at 200 us with our test system. Lowering the CAS latency on DDR400B allows, however, even the clock rates of up to 216 MHz timings, timings were possible even 230 MHz with DDR400C.

Kingston ValueRAM DDR400

A memory manufacturers such as Kingston, who himself has made a name due to the quality of its server memory modules but now very successfully supplied the retail market with the brand ValueRAM, would like to engage also in DDR400. This one goes with single sided modules based on a Samsung Board together with the appropriate Samsung 256 MBit 5ns chips at the start.

Kingston contributes only an own SPD, which identifies the Kingston ValueRAM DDR400 modules (3.0-3-3-8) as DDR400B. Interestingly, Kingston however provides for a memory voltage of 2.5 and not the 2.6 Volt prescribed as by the JEDEC. Quite unusually, nevertheless the 2.6 Volt chosen by us caused no problems the modules. Kingston granted a life-time warranty on the modules.

The imprint of “Evaluation” on the bars of memory made us somewhat puzzled by the way. Should it be here about hand-selected modules, which offer a special potential?

Kingston Valueram – throughput

Kingston Valueram – 480-3.0-3-3-8
3.455
Kingston Valueram – 460-3.0-3-3-8
3,292
Kingston Valueram – 440-3.0-3-3-8
3,146
Kingston Valueram – 430-2.5-3-3-7
3.082
Kingston Valueram – 420-2.5-3-3-7
3.010
Kingston Valueram – SPD
2.868
Kingston Valueram – 400-2.5-3-3-7
2.856
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Kingston Valueram – 3DMark

Kingston Valueram – 480-3.0-3-3-8
705
Kingston Valueram – 460-3.0-3-3-8
669
Kingston Valueram – 440-3.0-3-3-8
646
Kingston Valueram – 430-2.5-3-3-7
630
Kingston Valueram – 420-2.5-3-3-7
612
Kingston Valueram – 400-2.5-3-3-7
585
Kingston Valueram – SPD
582
Information on points

Start the DDR400 modules of Kingston not bad in the race. With the memory timings of 3.0-3-3-8 (DDR400B) seems to have gone rather err on Kingston, for DDR400 2.5-3-3-7 timings were easily possible. The modules of Kingston so easily could meet the DDR400A standard. From the idea that it was hand-selected modules, we are considering this timing almost lost, finally the Corsair Twinix512 3200LL settled with much sharper timings (2.0-2-2-6) operate.

However, the reached clock rates were still puzzled us. We reached 215 MHz, at 3.0-3-3-8 even stunning 240 MHz at 2.5-3-3-7. That a commercially available Kingston ValueRAM DDR400 modules this clock in dual channel mode to achieve, we can hardly believe.

takeMS DDR400

With the DDR400 modules by takeMS, the brand of MemorySolution, a purebred “made in Germany”, we received product. The memory chips come from Germany, the memory Board has been developed in this country, with memory chips. Particularly noteworthy is the Board, on the the memory chips at home have found a really appealing, which is very different from the structure of the competition. Very attractive is the Golden “made in Germany” logo on the back of the single sided modules.

The SPD of the takeMS bolt identifies memory, which can be operated with the timings of 2.5-3-3-8 stable memory as DDR400A. Seems to get quite a bit so the modules.

TakeMS – throughput

takeMS – 454-3.0-4-4-8
3.201
takeMS – 450-3.0-4-4-8
3.165
takeMS – 440-2.5-3-3-7
3,146
takeMS – 430-2.5-3-3-7
3.074
takeMS – 420-2.5-3-3-7
3.010
takeMS – 410-2.5-3-3-7
2.929
takeMS – 400-2.0-3-3-7
2.880
takeMS – SPD
2.867
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

TakeMS – 3DMark03

takeMS – 454-3.0-4-4-8
660
takeMS – 450-3.0-4-4-8
653
takeMS – 440-2.5-3-3-7
646
takeMS – 430-2.5-3-3-7
629
takeMS – 420-2.5-3-3-7
611
takeMS – 410-2.5-3-3-7
592
takeMS – 400-2.0-3-3-7
589
takeMS – SPD
583
Information on points

Although takeMS with 2.5-3-3-7, already pretty fast timings exacts the modules by SPD, can you out tease from memory something more. The CAS latency left itself completely to our delight to 2 bars reduce – this only at 200 MHz and no MHz. At least 220 MHz were possible with fast timings of 2.5-3-3-7, with timings to DDR400C standard we could hinauftreiben the pace even up 227.

Twinmos DDR400

There are many storage manufacturers and Twinmos certainly belongs to those who only in this country have made a really good name in recent times, especially with the advent of DDR333 modules. It is clear that we would not risk them also with the new DDR400 ties. The Twinmos DDR400 modules it is single-sided memory. Of the Twinmos on their own, 5ns 256 MBit memory chips produced a total 8 units of its kind on the reference Board of Samsung home have found.

The SPD of the Twinmos bolt speaks of DDR400 modules according to the fastest JEDEC DDR400A standard. Thus three ties with us to the test met together with the Kingmax and takeMS DDR400 total, which therefore come with a SPD programmed on DDR400A. The SPD of Twinmos DDR400 modules waived by the way specify of the module label and serial number.

Twinmos – throughput

Twinmos – 456-2.0-3-3-8
3.308
Twinmos – 450-2.0-3-3-8
3.245
Twinmos – 440-2.0-3-3-8
3,188
Twinmos – 430-2.0-3-3-8
3.116
Twinmos – 400-2.0-3-3-8
2.895
Twinmos – SPD
2.857
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Twinmos – 3DMark

Twinmos – 456-2.0-3-3-8
677
Twinmos – 450-2.0-3-3-8
664
Twinmos – 440-2.0-3-3-8
647
Twinmos – 430-2.0-3-3-8
630
Twinmos – 400-2.0-3-3-8
590
Twinmos – SPD
584
Information on points

The results of the Twinmos bolt can see themselves fully. Here we could work with brisk CAS latency of 2 bars apparently stable up to a clock of 228 MHz. A result that see themselves really can be. This clock is however, by lowering the memory timings, no higher clock regions can be achieved.

Update 20. June 2003: Recently Twinmos, similar to, for example, Corsair, a so-called dual-channel Kit, in which offering is a pair of coordinated modules total 512 or 1024 MB Speicherkapazit.

Evaluation

To lose not track at the plethora of test results, the results we want to at this point at 200 MHz memory clock (400 MHz DDR) with standard timings, as well as in the test as soon as possible settings clearly contrast. In addition, we want to go to the results of the overclocking.

Standard

During evaluation we want to start MHz memory clock and the timings in the SPD is programmed with the results at 200

Total – throughput – DDR400 SPD

Corsair
2.898
Note: DDR400-2.0-2-2-6
Kingmax
2.884
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Infineon
2.873
Note: DDR400-3.0-3-3-8
Kingston
2.868
Note: DDR400-3.0-3-3-8
takeMS
2.867
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Twinmos
2.857
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Total – 3DMark – DDR400 SPD

Corsair
593
Note: DDR400-2.0-2-2-6
Kingmax
587
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Twinmos
584
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Infineon
584
Note: DDR400-3.0-3-3-8
takeMS
583
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Kingston
582
Note: DDR400-3.0-3-3-8
Information on points

Although the performance of the different memory modules but quite close together, so the modules stand out is by Corsair and Kingmax but some of the rest of the field. The Twinx ties of Corsair this result is clearly due to the much stricter standard timings, at Kingmax it is up to the comparatively good timings, and the fact that it is bar double sided.

Total – throughput – DDR400 fastest

Corsair
2.898
Note: DDR400-2.0-2-2-6
Twinmos
2.895
Note: DDR400-2.0-3-3-8
Kingmax
2.884
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
takeMS
2.880
Note: DDR400-2.0-3-3-7
Infineon
2,860
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-7
Kingston
2.856
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-7
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Total – 3DMark – DDR400 fastest

Corsair
593
Note: DDR400-2.0-2-2-6
Twinmos
590
Note: DDR400-2.0-3-3-8
takeMS
589
Note: DDR400-2.0-3-3-7
Kingmax
587
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-8
Infineon
586
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-7
Kingston
585
Note: DDR400-2.5-3-3-7
Information on points

The fastest timings are also the Twinx modules from Corsair the measure of all things. As only this comparison bar they can be operated with the fast timings of 2.0-2-2-6. The modules Twinmos and takeMS can compete very well, eventually the CAS latency to 2 bars settled here in the test also reduce.

Overclocks

While the differences in the standard memory frequency of 200 MHz in borders held, the chaff separated when overclocking of the wheat. At this point, it should be noted that the modules have been clear operated outside its specifications. The manufacturer guarantees of course only operation at 200 MHz and the memory timings in the SPD.

Total – throughput – DDR440 fastest

Twinmos
3,188
Note: 2.0-3-3-8
Corsair
3,188
Note: 2.0-3-3-7
Infineon
3,150
Note: 2.5-3-3-7
Kingston
3,146
Note: 3.0-3-3-8
takeMS
3,146
Note: 2.5-3-3-7
Kingmax
3,112
Note: 3.0-4-4-8
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Total – 3DMark – DDR440 fastest

Corsair
649
Note: 2.0-3-3-7
Twinmos
647
Note: 2.0-3-3-8
Kingston
646
Note: 3.0-3-3-8
takeMS
646
Note: 2.5-3-3-7
Infineon
646
Note: 2.5-3-3-7
Kingmax
641
Note: 3.0-4-4-8
Information on points

To our surprise, it was possible increase the memory clock on 220 MHz with all participants of this first benchmarks. An impressive increase of 10%! Also here the overclocking modules from Corsair, go out when also running out as the winner. The DDR400 bars of Twinmos show here second place ahead of Infineon, Kingston and takeMS, who share third place. The slightly faster timings were possible only with Corsair and Twinmos.

Total – throughput – highest

Kingston
3.455
Note: DDR480-3.0-3-3-8
Twinmos
3.308
Note: DDR456-2.0-3-3-8
Infineon
3.305
Note: DDR460-3.0-3-3-8
Kingmax
3.246
Note: DDR460-3.0-4-4-8
takeMS
3.201
Note: DDR454-3.0-4-4-8
Corsair
3,188
Note: DDR440-2.0-3-3-7
Information in megabytes per second (MB/s)

Total – 3DMark – highest

Kingston
705
Note: DDR480-3.0-3-3-8
Twinmos
677
Note: DDR456-2.0-3-3-8
Infineon
674
Note: DDR460-3.0-3-3-8
Kingmax
669
Note: DDR460-3.0-4-4-8
takeMS
660
Note: DDR454-3.0-4-4-8
Corsair
649
Note: DDR440-2.0-3-3-7
Information on points

With regard to the achieved maximum clock, the DDR400 can feel clearly victorious Moduler from Kingston, although we do but bad doubt that commercially available modules from Kingston also accommodate this overclocking potential. Ultimately it is also a luck in a sense, how much to let overclock the memory modules. The ties of Twinmos show here the second place: by fast timings at 228 MHz they could run even on the modules of Kingmax and Infineon past, which reached a clock of 230 MHz in worse memory timings. The ties of Corsair ran out of steam at 220 MHz and pfeilschnellen timings. It was here unfortunately not granted, by lowering the memory timings to achieve higher clock rates. However, we must bear the Corsair Twinix512 3200LL to the best that they have far more hours on the hump, as all other participants in the benchmark tests together, because they were often used for processor and Mainboardtests with us.

Conclusion

Summa summarum could keep all modules, what they promise. Stable operation at 200 MHz memory clock with the timings that are stored in the SPD was possible on our test system without exception. With regard to the performance of the settings guaranteed by the manufacturer, we have seen however significant differences, which is not least reflected in the price, which ultimately is the decisive buying criterion.

The matched memory pair from Corsair, which listens to the name of TWINX512 3200LL and consisting 2x256MB of memory changes hands from 150 euros. For this price, you get excellent modules that allowed the fastest timings in this test-bed for DDR400 and are equipped with a stylish aluminum heat spreader, one can argue about the sense or nonsense surely. When overclocking we not came beyond 2 test system MHz memory clock 220 at our nForce, what should be more than sufficient in most cases.

Much cheaper to DDR400 is memory, however, with the modules from Infineon, where a 256 MB bars (CL3) starting at approx. 38 euros in trade is available. For 76 euros can be so proud owner of 2x256MB DDR400 memory called, which positions itself as a good midfielder. With the best will, can he be operated easily with timings under the DDR400A standard (2.5-3-3-7), and makes doing an acceptable figure. When overclocking we reached with the US Infineon kindly available provided storage pair excellent 230 MHz. surely more of a exception.

The modules of Kingmax, availability seems to be somewhat limited. We have encountered at least no provider, which has these modules in the program. Even if you can choose here hardly the fastest memory timings, so good overclocking results can be with slow timings achieved. The modules of Kingmax, by the way, are less high than that of the competition due to the installed memory chips.

The DDR400 modules of Kingston (ValueRAM) are from 42 EUR for a 256 MB, and thus for 84 euros for 2 x 256 MB in commercially available. Thus, they are by no means the cheapest memory bolt in this comparison. With DDR400, what they are slightly slower than the competition, even with fastest timings, but more by software to measure, as you can feel it while working. With a maximum 240 MHz memory clock the ties go clear but as clock winner from this comparison. A result, what can be seen though, but can probably be not on all storage bar which carried series in Kingston ValueRAM DDR400.

2 X 256 MB memory (CL3) by takeMS are available for approximately 71 euro, which also easily achieve a 200 MHz memory clock. The us kindly from modules provided by MemorySolutions sign up according to the SPD as Cl2. 5 memory, although trade takeMS DDR400, modules only as CL3 marketed ties among the people. The store stands out with its layout, as well as by the achieved memory timings from the competition. As one of three pairs of module, the ties by takeMS with DDR400 could even with Cl2. 0 operate. When overclocking, the takeMS memory was good but not excellent. In the light of the price, you can access here probably without hesitation.

The modules of Twinmos may feel as clear price/performance winner. Here is a pair of 2x256MB DDR400 memory (Cl2. 5) available from about 70 euro. The modules which kindly provided by Twinmos available, had run up in high clock regions with a CAS latency of 2 and found themselves at the standard speed of 200 MHz, as well as in overclocking in second place. As for the modules by takeMS accessible here without hesitation, if one owns a nForce 2 Board.

Who it is, however, solely on the performance and the price does not matter, which is very well advised with the Corsair TWINIX512-3200LL, but must put according to much money on the table.

Note: At this point it should be noted that those of us on an A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0 of the company of ASUS achievements not readily transferable to other boards. Moreover, cannot be guaranteed, that the available modules also offer the performance of the modules provided by the manufacturers available for testing. The overclocking of components can lead to errors or even damage to components. Not for nothing two nForce perished for this partial test 2 boards from ASUS.

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Written by Bernd Abt. Posted in Finance – Stock Market And Stock Markets

To his father’s security! So when single mothers, worst mother even children enough living expenses and school expenses, must be properly to ensure security. However, thinking different reason became a single mother. And because the bigger “bereavement” and divides into a divorce or unmarried birth “, but here, divorced or unwed birth (part from somebody below.)” of consider the case. Responsibility becomes...

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